Last week 404 Media reported a website called ‘Dogequest’ was doxing Tesla owners. The site administrators appear to have launched a clone of the interactive map on the dark web too.
I feel like unless you bought an Incel Camino or a brand new Tesla like in the last year, you really shouldn’t be on the receiving end of quite so much hate, TBH. They were the car that finally got EVs off the ground as an acceptable alternative, so it’s a shame early adopters are possibly being lumped in with MAGA truck owners.
The only reason EV’s never got off the ground in the US is because the auto industry was shutting that shit down every step of the way. Iirc a few people even got disappeared. There are numerous documentaries out there.
I agree though, going after regular folks just because they bought a car isn’t cool. People should stay focused on the actual fascis7s.
Disappeared? The oil and gas industry has been making people disappear for profit since before automobiles became a thing. This industry will murder you if you’re actually competition or inhibiting them.
Car dealerships are fair game I don’t care what happens to cars there. But an individual’s car, I wouldn’t go beyond leaving notes on the windshield, otherwise you’re just making people angry for no good reason. Before 2020 a lot of people may have bought a Tesla and while Musk was always fishy, at the time it wasn’t any worse than most other car companies. And not everyone can “just sell” their cars. Cybertrucks though… These are actively dangerous and disabling them is a matter of public safety 😝
Leaf was the first “off the ground”. Tesla were the first to show that production EVs weren’t limited to boring econoboxes.
Anyway, you can filter out early adopters because they didn’t have factory anti-chrome, so if you see a shiny trim around the windows - it’s probably got a pre-public meltdown era owner.
But look harder than just that! Many owners got the chrome blacked out with a vinyl wrap. And the blacked out appeared in 2018 in the model y first, which could’ve been just right after the pedo remarks.
The leaf did such a disservice to EVs that the world would probably have been better off without it. It was ugly, it was slow, it had no range, it had no battery cooling so degradation was awful, and charging was slow to boot.
Would we though? The model S was only ~2 years away and that was the first EV people took seriously.
The leaf was affordable, but depreciation hit so hard that buying one new was only for actually insane people. And the battery degradation was almost as bad as the price degradation so your meh range became even worse. In ideal conditions it was fine, but anything worse and it was not a good option.
I’m not a time traveller so I can’t say for sure, but cars lile Chevy Bolt and Renault Zoe wouldn’t be the same, since Leaf showed that there was demand for small BEV hatches and battery cooling systems
Most of those were fixed with gen 2 but the one the two that really matter were not fixed: no water cooling and the CHAdeMO charging. What is worse is that they still didn’t fix it over the last 8 years with a newer generation when it was clear those were both nonstarters. Instead they came out with the overpriced Arya which is much worse than the competition.
But make no mistake, the Leaf back in 2011 was a game changer. It showed that your commuter car could very much be an EV.
A lot of that is why I have kind of always resented the tesla marketing even before we k
new musk was a hateful sexpest. My uncle had one of the early models before they added a lot of the safety features and it was REAL fun to go basically have instantaneous acceleration… and he would probably have died from that if he didn’t die from cancer instead.
But very quickly they made the argument that people need giant batteries and massive range. And that still permeates today. And the reality is that, no, people don’t. The vast majority of driving is commuting which tends to be more stop and go than not and just making charging stations in parking lots more ubiquitous would go a REALLY long way. No, not the super chargers. Just simple slow as hell level 1 and 2 chargers. And that would cover basically everyone 6.9 days a week outside of the folk with REALLY long commutes.
Where long range and super fast charging DOES help is for people doing long road trips and… folk think they are gonna be in their 30s and 40s driving 12 hours straight with only a stop to dump their piss bottle at a gas station. The reality is that by the time you are even considering a “new” car, you are probably also going to be more likely to stop for lunch or have kids to deal with where 30-40 minutes for a full recharge makes a lot more sense.
But instead we got into the mindset that you need a massive battery so you only charge up once a week and when you do it is a 10 minute recharge because even that is too long to wait.
I occasionally think of an alternate timeline where we realized that was stupid and instead L1/2 charging stations were a lot more popular and pretty much every major manufacturer switched to plug-in hybrids. Yeah, their battery tends to be shite compared to a “real” EV but people vastly underestimate how much you get from regenerative braking under real world conditions. Couple years back I had a rental toyota sedan and ended up driving all around Ontario for the better part of a week on like half a tank of gas and it was insane. And the needle literally did not move the entire time I was in Toronto or even frigging London.
I think you are stuck on theory and don’t have a good grasp of the pragmatic realities here.
But very quickly they made the argument that people need giant batteries and massive range. And that still permeates today. And the reality is that, no, people don’t. The vast majority of driving is commuting which tends to be more stop and go than not
I consider a 300 mile battery to be the smallest I’d buy for a number of reasons.
and just making charging stations in parking lots more ubiquitous would go a REALLY long way. No, not the super chargers. Just simple slow as hell level 1 and 2 chargers.
In most of the western world all of those parking lots you’re talking about are private property. Getting L1/L2 chargers installed in dozens or hundreds of spots. That is not only a significant expense, but you’d have to talk to, and convince millions of business owners to make massive investments for something that would take decades to even come to break even. Also, the costs don’t end at installation. Regular maintenance is required for EV chargers to continue to be operational. That costs money too.
Further, there are a frightening number of Charging Networks. Each with their own app, account requirement, and billing terms. Just because an L2 charger exists at your location doesn’t mean its a fair price for charging. Some business owners charge MASSIVELY for L2 charging (which is their right, its their charger).
And that would cover basically everyone 6.9 days a week outside of the folk with REALLY long commutes.
You’re talking about literally millions of L1/L2 chargers that would have to exist with even more than 1:1 availability for each EV sold.
Where long range and super fast charging DOES help is for people doing long road trips and… folk think they are gonna be in their 30s and 40s driving 12 hours straight with only a stop to dump their piss bottle at a gas station. The reality is that by the time you are even considering a “new” car, you are probably also going to be more likely to stop for lunch or have kids to deal with where 30-40 minutes for a full recharge makes a lot more sense.
I don’t know of any EV with a single charge range that could drive for 12 hours at highway speeds. The largest are 400-450miles which would be a very generous 6 hours tops.
But instead we got into the mindset that you need a massive battery so you only charge up once a week and when you do it is a 10 minute recharge because even that is too long to wait.
No, you need a larger battery for a whole bunch of other reasons:
you may be in the 34% of Americans live in a rental and don’t have an L1/L2 EV charging option.
you can’t guarantee your regular public charger will be operational as lack of maintenance (because they are privately owned) or vandalism
its the deep winter and you only have 70% of your battery capacity available to you
its still deep winter and you’re expending more charge on keeping the car warmer than you do in summer
there’s ICE vehicles sitting in your public charging spot blocking your ability to charge that day
you came home exhausted and forgot to plug in the L2 charger at home, and if you had a small battery your day is now ruined/costly
there was a power outage at home for a night but with a larger battery its no problem and you can charge it in a day or so
your spouse was going to pick up the kids, but she had a thing come up at work, and so you’ve got to go pick them up and take them to Karate and ballet practice which was more than your standard commute charge
There’s construction on your commute and the detour takes you way out of your normal way for a few months until the work is complete.
You want to visit a city more than a commute distance away and even then public fast chargers are few and far between, assuming they’re functional/available when you get to one.
All of these things are solved only by a larger-than-commute-size battery.
If we lived in a planned authoritarian society like China, your idea of ubiquitous L1/L2 would be more viable. Business owners would be required to install the state sponsored L1/L2 EV charger. Alternatively, these would be installed and maintained by a public government service. In the West though, its a pipe dream to get everyone to agree and be able to afford to roll out that level of infrastructure all across a country.
people vastly underestimate how much you get from regenerative braking under real world conditions
From what I’ve heard and read, that’s why the original Opel Ampera/Chevy Volt was so beloved.
and pretty much every major manufacturer switched to plug-in hybrids
Nowadays we have new Honda (and Nissan but who cares tbh) hybrids where the engine doesn’t drive the wheels 99% of the time. So we’re intersecting with that timeline a lil bit lol
Tbh there was also a time where I was under the assumption that all the big car manufacturing CEOs are probably not much better, Elon was just stupid enough to be open about it. For that I’m willing to give the benefit of doubt unless they recently got a Tesla brand new or have the PS1 graphics car.
ive seen people around my area buying new teslas as of recently including the truck, they know full well elon is capable of, they just seem ignorant to his politics. also the fact the teslas as QC problems people are ignoring, going back all the way before twitter purchase. on reddit people were buying the truck as way to get attention, so im not surprised they are this ignorant.
I’m kinda conflicted about this. On the one hand, selling a car takes time and energy, and might not necessarily be feasible to do in just a few months, especially since the market for em is going to SUCK. On the other hand, if you continue to drive a car from a company owned by a literal Nazi once you know, then… well I don’t feel too bad for you.
I switched to EVs in 2014, and went fully electric in 2018. My problem is that there still isn’t a good alternative I can use for long distance trips for my family of 7. I’d love to switch to something like the Kia EV9, but I almost have my current car paid off, and can’t afford another $80k car. I’m conflicted, because I don’t want to switch back to a gas car, and I believe my current power company is on track to be 50% sustainable/renewable in 5-10 years. I feel like it could take me years as opposed to months to find a replacement EV that works for me.
The only 7-seater available in 2018 was the Model X. Yes, it was clear he was an asshole as far back as 2018, but he was still a huge proponent of mitigating climate change (in hindsight it was clearly a grift for him), so at the time I thought it was a net positive. I used up a lot of my savings to afford it, so it would be difficult for me to switch to anything that isn’t a gas car.
In the end someone will own the car and be f’ed because of it. The seller will take a huge financial loss because other people think it helps to force people to make bad financial decisions while Tesla already has the money.
Here’s the thing, if you own a Tesla, it’s already been depreciated through elon’s actions. You just haven’t realised (in the accounting sense) the loss yet.
The fact is that they are being targeted, so selling now is a method of hedging your losses. The other option is to gamble that you won’t be targeted.
The car still has utility to the person who owns it. It’s “real” value is irrelevant to most people so long as it does what it was supposed to do when purchased.
Also adding the fact that people almost never purchased a uSED tesla for a reason, because the QC issue crops up, and new drivers are turned away from it. the only time i notice someone getting a used one(is a youtuber trying to mooch off of another ytubers fame., its actually quite sad)
I’d point out Volkswagen and Porsche also still exist. With the former now owning a laundry list of other brands.
I’m definately in the camp where people need to take a step back and look at who they are hurting with this and how realistic it is to expect people to just get rid of their car.
Especially now nobody wants them.
After all just because Democrats now hate this brand doesn’t mean MAGA starts buying them up…
people need to take a step back and look at who they are hurting with this and how realistic it is to expect people to just get rid of their car.
I think after reading @[email protected] 's perspective, I’m certainly a bit more sympathetic. I guess I had a picture in my head about the economic status of the typical Tesla owner that they could probably afford to absorb the loss if they could afford the thing in the first place. I forgot we live in a world where you can finance everything, even your take-out, and that even luxury car owners might be living paycheque to paycheque.
That, and that there are probably quite a few people who got one for environmental reasons who don’t deserve to be hurt for what was most likely an innocent mistake.
I kinda thought that’s what they were getting at, that there are other brands that deserved scorn just as badly, and we generally don’t take out our frustrations on the owners.
I’m definately in the camp where people need to take a step back and look at who they are hurting with this and how realistic it is to expect people to just get rid of their car.
Ok, so they don’t need to get rid of it. Park it, cover with a tarp, and use public transportation. Easy solution.
Sorry if it’s inconvenient, but opposing fascism isn’t convenient to do.
Hell, if that’s too far a bridge, the owner is of course, free to take a can of paint, and put “Elon Musk is a Nazi” on the car. Problem solved.
I feel like unless you bought an Incel Camino or a brand new Tesla like in the last year, you really shouldn’t be on the receiving end of quite so much hate, TBH. They were the car that finally got EVs off the ground as an acceptable alternative, so it’s a shame early adopters are possibly being lumped in with MAGA truck owners.
The only reason EV’s never got off the ground in the US is because the auto industry was shutting that shit down every step of the way. Iirc a few people even got disappeared. There are numerous documentaries out there.
I agree though, going after regular folks just because they bought a car isn’t cool. People should stay focused on the actual fascis7s.
Disappeared? The oil and gas industry has been making people disappear for profit since before automobiles became a thing. This industry will murder you if you’re actually competition or inhibiting them.
Car dealerships are fair game I don’t care what happens to cars there. But an individual’s car, I wouldn’t go beyond leaving notes on the windshield, otherwise you’re just making people angry for no good reason. Before 2020 a lot of people may have bought a Tesla and while Musk was always fishy, at the time it wasn’t any worse than most other car companies. And not everyone can “just sell” their cars. Cybertrucks though… These are actively dangerous and disabling them is a matter of public safety 😝
It’s hard to argue against public safety 😅
If you bought a Tesla… Yes, you can just “sell your car”. These are not cars that a typical working class joe buys.
Is this Tesla’s fault? How is this relevant? Everyone knows this; it’s like, the number one “did you know?” fact about EVs.
Tesla bennifits from it giving them a monopoly other market.
If you think EV companies benefit from companies like GM trying to shut down EVs at every opportunity, you need to rethink.
They don’t. But tesla does
I guess it does make Tesla the number one symbol of the failure of US capitalism.
Leaf was the first “off the ground”. Tesla were the first to show that production EVs weren’t limited to boring econoboxes.
Anyway, you can filter out early adopters because they didn’t have factory anti-chrome, so if you see a shiny trim around the windows - it’s probably got a pre-public meltdown era owner.
But look harder than just that! Many owners got the chrome blacked out with a vinyl wrap. And the blacked out appeared in 2018 in the model y first, which could’ve been just right after the pedo remarks.
True, that’s why I sneaked a “probably” in my comment lol
The leaf did such a disservice to EVs that the world would probably have been better off without it. It was ugly, it was slow, it had no range, it had no battery cooling so degradation was awful, and charging was slow to boot.
I knew like 2 people that had leafs, they loved them.
So all of them
We wouldn’t be here without it though. It did a decent job popularizing EVs, much better than i-Miev for example.
Would we though? The model S was only ~2 years away and that was the first EV people took seriously.
The leaf was affordable, but depreciation hit so hard that buying one new was only for actually insane people. And the battery degradation was almost as bad as the price degradation so your meh range became even worse. In ideal conditions it was fine, but anything worse and it was not a good option.
I’m not a time traveller so I can’t say for sure, but cars lile Chevy Bolt and Renault Zoe wouldn’t be the same, since Leaf showed that there was demand for small BEV hatches and battery cooling systems
Most of those were fixed with gen 2 but the one the two that really matter were not fixed: no water cooling and the CHAdeMO charging. What is worse is that they still didn’t fix it over the last 8 years with a newer generation when it was clear those were both nonstarters. Instead they came out with the overpriced Arya which is much worse than the competition.
But make no mistake, the Leaf back in 2011 was a game changer. It showed that your commuter car could very much be an EV.
A lot of that is why I have kind of always resented the tesla marketing even before we k new musk was a hateful sexpest. My uncle had one of the early models before they added a lot of the safety features and it was REAL fun to go basically have instantaneous acceleration… and he would probably have died from that if he didn’t die from cancer instead.
But very quickly they made the argument that people need giant batteries and massive range. And that still permeates today. And the reality is that, no, people don’t. The vast majority of driving is commuting which tends to be more stop and go than not and just making charging stations in parking lots more ubiquitous would go a REALLY long way. No, not the super chargers. Just simple slow as hell level 1 and 2 chargers. And that would cover basically everyone 6.9 days a week outside of the folk with REALLY long commutes.
Where long range and super fast charging DOES help is for people doing long road trips and… folk think they are gonna be in their 30s and 40s driving 12 hours straight with only a stop to dump their piss bottle at a gas station. The reality is that by the time you are even considering a “new” car, you are probably also going to be more likely to stop for lunch or have kids to deal with where 30-40 minutes for a full recharge makes a lot more sense.
But instead we got into the mindset that you need a massive battery so you only charge up once a week and when you do it is a 10 minute recharge because even that is too long to wait.
I occasionally think of an alternate timeline where we realized that was stupid and instead L1/2 charging stations were a lot more popular and pretty much every major manufacturer switched to plug-in hybrids. Yeah, their battery tends to be shite compared to a “real” EV but people vastly underestimate how much you get from regenerative braking under real world conditions. Couple years back I had a rental toyota sedan and ended up driving all around Ontario for the better part of a week on like half a tank of gas and it was insane. And the needle literally did not move the entire time I was in Toronto or even frigging London.
I think you are stuck on theory and don’t have a good grasp of the pragmatic realities here.
I consider a 300 mile battery to be the smallest I’d buy for a number of reasons.
In most of the western world all of those parking lots you’re talking about are private property. Getting L1/L2 chargers installed in dozens or hundreds of spots. That is not only a significant expense, but you’d have to talk to, and convince millions of business owners to make massive investments for something that would take decades to even come to break even. Also, the costs don’t end at installation. Regular maintenance is required for EV chargers to continue to be operational. That costs money too.
Further, there are a frightening number of Charging Networks. Each with their own app, account requirement, and billing terms. Just because an L2 charger exists at your location doesn’t mean its a fair price for charging. Some business owners charge MASSIVELY for L2 charging (which is their right, its their charger).
You’re talking about literally millions of L1/L2 chargers that would have to exist with even more than 1:1 availability for each EV sold.
I don’t know of any EV with a single charge range that could drive for 12 hours at highway speeds. The largest are 400-450miles which would be a very generous 6 hours tops.
No, you need a larger battery for a whole bunch of other reasons:
All of these things are solved only by a larger-than-commute-size battery.
If we lived in a planned authoritarian society like China, your idea of ubiquitous L1/L2 would be more viable. Business owners would be required to install the state sponsored L1/L2 EV charger. Alternatively, these would be installed and maintained by a public government service. In the West though, its a pipe dream to get everyone to agree and be able to afford to roll out that level of infrastructure all across a country.
Oh, we did that, with the IRA, and we, of course, gifted it to Elon Musk, after we paid to build it.
We didn’t. Not what @[email protected] is suggesting, which is L1/L2 charging. L1/L2 is much slower but much cheaper EV charging infra to deploy
Musk is a Nazi asshole, but Tesla only got less than 13% of those awards for DC fast charging deployments:
“Tesla has won almost 13 percent of all EV charging awards from the law” source
So, we paid for it, built it, and gave 13% of it away to a neonazi, and the rest to billionaires? And that’s… Better, somehow?
From what I’ve heard and read, that’s why the original Opel Ampera/Chevy Volt was so beloved.
Nowadays we have new Honda (and Nissan but who cares tbh) hybrids where the engine doesn’t drive the wheels 99% of the time. So we’re intersecting with that timeline a lil bit lol
That’s actually pretty cool to know. Thanks!
They could just sell it, or just not drive it, and keep it covered with a tarp…
Sure, everyone got the money to do that… Everything you have written in this thread so far is quite … let’s go with reality shifted.
The money to do what? Take public transportation?
Tbh there was also a time where I was under the assumption that all the big car manufacturing CEOs are probably not much better, Elon was just stupid enough to be open about it. For that I’m willing to give the benefit of doubt unless they recently got a Tesla brand new or have the PS1 graphics car.
ive seen people around my area buying new teslas as of recently including the truck, they know full well elon is capable of, they just seem ignorant to his politics. also the fact the teslas as QC problems people are ignoring, going back all the way before twitter purchase. on reddit people were buying the truck as way to get attention, so im not surprised they are this ignorant.
I’m kinda conflicted about this. On the one hand, selling a car takes time and energy, and might not necessarily be feasible to do in just a few months, especially since the market for em is going to SUCK. On the other hand, if you continue to drive a car from a company owned by a literal Nazi once you know, then… well I don’t feel too bad for you.
Once you purchase the vehicle, the damage is already done. There is nothing to gain from busting up cars people already purchased.
Carvana takes like… a couple of hours to sell on. Check in hand and all.
I switched to EVs in 2014, and went fully electric in 2018. My problem is that there still isn’t a good alternative I can use for long distance trips for my family of 7. I’d love to switch to something like the Kia EV9, but I almost have my current car paid off, and can’t afford another $80k car. I’m conflicted, because I don’t want to switch back to a gas car, and I believe my current power company is on track to be 50% sustainable/renewable in 5-10 years. I feel like it could take me years as opposed to months to find a replacement EV that works for me.
Rent a van the few times you need one
… What tesla are you fitting 7 people into these days?
Because they only have one vehicle that isn’t a sedan and… he was a full mask off hatemonger long before the cybertruck actually hit market.
The only 7-seater available in 2018 was the Model X. Yes, it was clear he was an asshole as far back as 2018, but he was still a huge proponent of mitigating climate change (in hindsight it was clearly a grift for him), so at the time I thought it was a net positive. I used up a lot of my savings to afford it, so it would be difficult for me to switch to anything that isn’t a gas car.
Sell their cars to who BEN? Aquaman?
In the end someone will own the car and be f’ed because of it. The seller will take a huge financial loss because other people think it helps to force people to make bad financial decisions while Tesla already has the money.
Here’s the thing, if you own a Tesla, it’s already been depreciated through elon’s actions. You just haven’t realised (in the accounting sense) the loss yet.
The fact is that they are being targeted, so selling now is a method of hedging your losses. The other option is to gamble that you won’t be targeted.
The car still has utility to the person who owns it. It’s “real” value is irrelevant to most people so long as it does what it was supposed to do when purchased.
Also adding the fact that people almost never purchased a uSED tesla for a reason, because the QC issue crops up, and new drivers are turned away from it. the only time i notice someone getting a used one(is a youtuber trying to mooch off of another ytubers fame., its actually quite sad)
I’d point out Volkswagen and Porsche also still exist. With the former now owning a laundry list of other brands.
I’m definately in the camp where people need to take a step back and look at who they are hurting with this and how realistic it is to expect people to just get rid of their car. Especially now nobody wants them.
After all just because Democrats now hate this brand doesn’t mean MAGA starts buying them up…
I think after reading @[email protected] 's perspective, I’m certainly a bit more sympathetic. I guess I had a picture in my head about the economic status of the typical Tesla owner that they could probably afford to absorb the loss if they could afford the thing in the first place. I forgot we live in a world where you can finance everything, even your take-out, and that even luxury car owners might be living paycheque to paycheque.
That, and that there are probably quite a few people who got one for environmental reasons who don’t deserve to be hurt for what was most likely an innocent mistake.
Yeah, Volkswagen is super well known for really caring about emissions… Cough…
I kinda thought that’s what they were getting at, that there are other brands that deserved scorn just as badly, and we generally don’t take out our frustrations on the owners.
Ok, so they don’t need to get rid of it. Park it, cover with a tarp, and use public transportation. Easy solution.
Sorry if it’s inconvenient, but opposing fascism isn’t convenient to do.
Hell, if that’s too far a bridge, the owner is of course, free to take a can of paint, and put “Elon Musk is a Nazi” on the car. Problem solved.
Yes, take public transport, from suburbia…
Man, it certainly does suck that they’ve opposed public transportation in their community in the past… starting to see a pattern here.