Summary
A baby red panda named Roxie at the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland died from “stress caused by fireworks” after choking on her vomit, just days after her mother’s sudden death.
The incident, occurring around the U.K.’s Bonfire Night celebrations, has led to renewed calls for stricter fireworks regulations.
A petition with over a million signatures urging restrictions on public fireworks sales was submitted to the U.K. government.
Edinburgh recently implemented limited fireworks control zones, but animal welfare advocates argue for broader measures to prevent similar tragedies.
This is just sensational reporting. From the comments, it looks like it is working. Usesome of the critical thinking we ask trump supporters to use. Medical science isn’t at the point that it can know which source of stress caused a thing. And in this case the baby had also lost it’s mother, a source of comfort. And read the whole article. “We know that fireworks can cause stress to other animals in the zoo and we cannot rule out that they may have contributed to the untimely death of Roxie’s mother Ginger, just five days’ earlier.”
They don’t even know what killed the mother.
I am sure the fireworks were a contributing factor, but sounds like the baby was already in a weakened state.
We collectively need to get over this concept that media is accurately representing the truth with intent to inform. Media is a business. It’s intent is to make money. And with lot’s of competitors, it can only survive by making the stories it reports more sensational than they are (cause their competitors are doing it) to get the clicks. Some are better than others, but they all have to do it to survive.
You’re correct that people should apply critical thought, and using a cute baby animal for this message is manipulative and people should be aware of that, but it doesn’t make the message any less important. There are many reasons to ban them. They look somewhat pretty, but you can go to a show done by professionals that’ll be more impressive.
Fireworks not only cause stress for animals, but also humans. (A pet peeve of mine is memorial day/Veterans day fireworks shows. In what world is throwing explosives around good for former soldiers?) They are a not insignificant cause of fires. They’re just generally harmful and do very little good. We don’t need them.
If spreading a manipulative article works to change people’s minds towards something better, it’s probably worth it. You can be sure other people are doing it against good.
Hello JD Vance. If you need deception to change people’s minds, maybe it’s you who is wrong.
Nope. If you just lay down and let the bad guys win because you refuse to fight, that isn’t the moral option. Be honest and use reason where it’s valuable, but don’t refuse to use emotions when that’s useful too. People with bad intention will be using it and refusing to play the game is only empowering them.
Anger is a much more useful emotion than sadness.
I believe compassion to be more constructive, but fear and anger are definitely more motivating. All emotions are sometimes useful and always an opportunity for manipulation, for better or worse, that people should be aware of.
I used to think fireworks were fun, but after getting a dog that is terrified of them, you start noticing all the little things.
People shoot then off randomly throughout the year. They leave behind garbage waste. Animals and even some humans seem to get PTSD from them.
I’m in favor of very limited fireworks in specific areas.
I’m a veteran and used to get worked up by them. It took a few years but I mostly got over it because they were predictable, the city put out notices as well as the local baseball team. And then they were legalized for a specific time frame for everybody. Any random asshole could buy and shoot off fireworks during a 3 day window.
Cool, I can hang with that. But then they shoot them off randomly for the 2 weeks surrounding the weekend that they’re allowed. That I can’t hang with. Especially during the day. Why the fuck are you shooting them off during the day anyways?!? You can’t see it! The thing that pisses me off the most? The motherfuckers shooting shit off at random times and days? Those assholes would happily suck my dick if I told them I’m a veteran and told them to do so. But then they’d fire off more fireworks to celebrate doing so.
So the zoo loses 2 red pandas in a couple days and instead of investigating the conditions of their care, they blame it on the public being loud?
There are easy ways to protect your pets from fireworks noise so this stinks of scapegoating for their own terrible care.
Also, why ban something when you can just have area bans?
Even just bringing it an age limit is a good start. loads of kids buy tons of these fireworks after guy Fawkes and diwali because they are cheaper so it is more like two weeks of unending fireworks rather than two nights.
Has the mother also died from early Fireworks? Since when do fireworks cause vomiting…
For a second I thought this was Reddit with all the armchairing. Holy crap
Armchair zoologist, that’s a new one to add to the bingo board
I’m genuinely shocked it wasn’t there and marked already.
Stress can cause vomiting, hell it can cause it in humans!
Since vet experts claim that they do.
"Veterinary experts at the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland announced on Wednesday that a 3-month-old panda named Roxie died “due to stress caused by fireworks being let off across the city centre.”
Haven’t you heard? Expertise doesn’t matter anymore, and any rando on the internet’s view is just as valid as an expert’s (and my buddy’s view on it is even more valid).
I truly wish that I could say this was a joke.
instead of investigating the conditions
Yea they should have sent some vet experts to investigate. Oh wait…
"Veterinary experts at the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland announced on Wednesday that a 3-month-old panda named Roxie died “due to stress caused by fireworks being let off across the city centre.”
Ofcourse they could always just be there to burry evidence to further their holy crusade against fireworks!
Ofcourse they could always just be there to burry evidence to
further their holy crusade against fireworks!hide negligence.Ftfy
yea with a bunch of veterinary surgeons, nurses and zoology professors at their service, I am sure they were still not able to come up with a fake reason that your keen eyes were not able to spot immediately.
Yeah this sounds REAL off.
Fireworks fucking suck & it’s exactly the assholes you expect who promote/buy/use them.
I’m dubious. Mom dies suddenly, then baby dies suddenly after choking on it’s own vomit. Yeah, no, let’s blame the fireworks. Surely, nothing else could be the cause of Red Panda deaths at this zoo.
Whether or not it was the direct cause in this case, fireworks cause a lot of animals a lot of stress and deaths do come from it.
I don’t see why anyone needs to be able to buy explosives to use at home, firework shows should be organised in set locations and should use low noise fireworks as much as possible.
I had a whole thing earlier but was mistaken, the baby was 3 months old not a newborn. Either way, I still don’t doubt that fireworks could easily stress out a very young animal and be the tipping point of their health.
I’m not sure what could motivate them to make a grand conspiracy against fireworks, rather than the more likely result of them being exhausted and frustrated caretakers who, like any pet owner, probably spent that evening trying to calm the panda down only to watch it panic until it died. Stress vomiting isn’t really rare for animals on the 4th of July. It’s just the extreme end of stress.
I’m not saying that it’s a conspiracy against fireworks, but possibly a problem with the habitat, food, or something else that would cause big issues for the zoo if discovered. The fireworks were convenient. I have zero evidence for this other than the fact that a lot of zoos are complete cesspools, and so I typically don’t trust “suddenly died” followed three days later by another “suddenly died” regardless of how many fireworks were launched off.
Also, there is this line:
Roxie had access to her den but the frightening noises seem to have been too much for her.
Seems like the zoo just left a weak animal to suffer instead of taking precautions to assure that the panda was placed in a safe location. It makes me doubt that anyone was even there, and that the zookeepers returned the following day to a dead red panda and tried to cover it up.
“I have zero evidence for this…”
Says it all really.
Maybe they should have called some vet experts to investigate. Oh wait that is exactly what they did but I am sure people on the internets know more about animals. Not a big fan of zoos but people who armchair are magnitudes worse.
And no medical professional has ever been found to be biased in their opinion. And no reporter ever misrepresented what someone said to make a more sensational article. Stress is not a well understood thing. There is no test for confirming the source of stress. And the vets aren’t saying their is. Did the fireworks contribute, sure I would trust a vet who says that, and it was probably what they actually said. But a babies Mom dieing, and not being there to comfort the baby from the stress of fireworks is probably a bigger contributor. Also read a little further down where the expert says we can’t rule out fireworks as the cause. That is totally different. Seems like the vets don’t agree.
right and random strangers on the internet are completely unbiased and generally reasonable? It does not give one enough reason to completely disregard experts’opinions. vets are saying that it probably is a contributing factor whereas people in this thread are claiming that it is the zoo who is trying to cover up for bad conditions and negligence in the zoo. tell me which one sounds more reasonable?
Neither one has to be correct. One experts opinion is that they couldn’t rule it out. That sounds reasonable. I do think that the zoo bares some responsibility for bringing such a fragile species into a city. Zoo’s do a lot of good too. But they knew there would be fireworks. Where were they? Why wasn’t someone there to take the baby to it’s enclosure. Or sedate it during the fireworks. People do more for their adult dogs than the zoo did for this baby. I don’t think it’s a cover up or anything. They have lot’s of experts. They quoted the one that said the most sensational thing. I am not saying disregard the experts, I am saying a hand picked (by people with an agenda) sample size of one is not evidence of anything. I am willing to bet if you took a poll of all of the experts at that zoo, you would get a much less confident opinion, more like the “can’t rule it out” than the “fireworks killed the baby” person.
People do more for their adult dogs than the zoo did for this baby
The fact of the matter is that you or I don’t really have any information what the zoo did for this baby or did not. Most everything in this topic is pure speculation and has to do with more how people see the world through their eyes than any evidence or fact. The only piece of evidence we have is what the vet experts have said. Anything else is a huge “maybe”.
One experts opinion is that they couldn’t rule it out
That is a much stronger statement that, “fireworks was probably not the cause of this”. They could also have just gone with “stress due to loss of the mother” easily and no one would really think twice about it. But they did choose to make this statement. Experienced vet surgeons/nurses etc who have had the opportunity to experience how animals behave under these conditions many many times. Also mind you this one way the news has been reported, I have seen multiple instance where the wording is more stronger such as:
"Very sadly, she choked on her vomit on Bonfire Night and our vets believe this was probably a reaction to fireworks,” said Ben Supple, RZSS’s deputy chief executive. Roxie had access to her den but the frightening noises seem to have been too much for her. We are also concerned that fireworks cause stress to other animals in the zoo.”
I have seen remarks in this topic ranging from “their vets are just the zookepers” to “animals don’t vomit because of fireworks”. It is just ridiculous. Even these vet experts have not made their statements in such certainty as the people in this topic.
“But they did choose to make this statement” they answered a question honestly. They didn’t choose the question. And I agree we don’t know what the vets are actually saying. We know only what the media reports. Which is my point. People are putting words into the vets mouths that maybe one vet might say, but others clearly disagree with. The article doesn’t represent the vets (collective) point of view. So anyone saying the vets are wrong is mistaken because they don’t even know what the vets really think. And similar for saying the vets are right.
They didn’t call in an outside vet to investigate. The fucking zoo keepers are vets. The zoo keepers are telling you what happened. You can believe them or not, but it’s not accountability.
Check under the vet team here:
https://www.rzss.org.uk/conservation/meet-the-team
Professors, veterinary surgeons, veterinary nurses etc. Edinburgh zoo is not just your run of the mill local village zoo. So sorry buddy, I am sure you will understand if I still trust the word of these people on the matter and not you, a random person with distaste against zoos (not a big fan either to be honest). I mean this is not just any field as well, this is zoology. People usually get into it because they love animals and such. It is not completely impossible for someone in this field to lie to cover up but now it is just your personal distaste against zoos and human kind vs several very well trained people on the field… As I said, I am not a big fan of zoos either and somewhat undecided about conservatories (which is what “Edinburgh Zoo” actually is) but that does not make people working there terrible lying scum bags.
"Veterinary experts at the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland announced on Wednesday that a 3-month-old panda named Roxie died “due to stress caused by fireworks being let off across the city centre.”
Go on guys teach those no good experts how to do their jobs!
I feel the need to put the /s tag seeing the comments in this topic.
I find it immensely infuriating that the article’s byline shows they are reporting from ‘London’ when in fact this happened not just in a different city, Edinburgh, but in a completely different country, Scotland.
Sad about the pandas, there are far too many people that simply can’t be trusted with fireworks. Limiting it to a single night in dedicated display venues run by licensed organisations wouldn’t remove the noise entirely, but it would reduce the frequency and would probably help all animals.
A lot of people in the comment here are being pretty obtuse, I’m doubtful many are even from the UK and understand the scale of celebrations with Guy Fawks and Divali being so close together this year
Not even just that. I can’t speak for Edinburgh, but in the area I live in in Glasgow we’ve had random fireworks go off during the day for weeks leading up to Guy Fawkes. One big explosion every now and then. One day, still bright out, I was walking home and almost hit the deck because one went off so close to me out of nowhere.
After Guy Fawkes it has been less frequent, but still happens, at very odd times. You can even check news and see that it’s been an issue for a while. E.g.: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0j87zneq4vo
It stresses me out a bit, and I spend most of my time in my own home, with decent soundproofing. And I’m not a sensitive endangered animal.
We still have idiots here where I live in SE London letting off fireworks, last night was some. This last week or so my autoimmune illnesses are flaring up again so lot of pain and unwell, few days ago idiots let off more fireworks so loud I had to cover ears and take strong painkillers to try cope with effects of explosions :o(
Hopefully no more fireworks, still recovering, hands, arms, back, chest and left leg still in pain with, hope will get better soon :o(
That’s sad. Why are they selling baby red pandas?
Why can’t they put them in a sound safe zone till the fireworks dissipate? This zoo is incompetent and should be investigated
Because a lot of idiots keep shooting fireworks even though the day they’re supposed to be used on has not yet come or has long passed. Here, they’re supposed for New Year’s Eve. The first one this autumn went off sometime in September. The last one usually goes off sometime in February. What are the zookeepers supposed to do?
RIP little baby. I always feel guilty when watching fireworks…
Only my daughter goes to fireworks out of all my kids. I always make sure to remind her and everyone else we are with that even though they are enjoyable they distress the fuck out of wildlife and result in many deaths. Yes, they’re cool AF but think if aliens came here tomorrow. It’s no different than us going WTF at people firing AKs into the sky at a wedding. Only difference is the pretty colours and the method of firing. We are such a destructive species.
A well-made and safely launched firework has a way lower chance of returning to earth than a 7.62 bullet.
The concern has never been a casing falling to earth. Have you heard how loud they are? Do you know how stressing that is to animals? Also have you witnessed the thick cloud at the end of the show where you are literally inhaling the byproduct of hours of gunpowder going off?
I love fireworks but goddamn they aren’t smart.
While I’m not entirely sure I agree with these points, I do understand them. I only meant to convey that firing guns into the air is on another level of stupid compared to fireworks.
So… Where do they go? Space?
Combustion creates gas, or did you forget elementary school science?
Man, people really do love their fireworks… Noise, light and pollution, Yay!
I wonder how many of you guys complain about cars for the same reasons…
People can get really defensive and hostile about fireworks and I’ve never really understood it.
I quit smoking at the beginning of this summer because it’s a terrible habit that’s inconsiderate to others at best(and bad for me too). So I quit. The thing is I actually liked smoking…Nicotine is something else(I used nicotine gum for anyone wondering)
So if I can accept that about smoking, why is it so hard for folks to understand that fireworks, while enjoyable, can have detrimental effects to other living creatures nearby? Some of whom might be people? It’s just really strange to me.
Yeah if man made noise is a problem for a species maybe don’t house them in the FUCKING CITY…
Here’s Another thought too. Zoos are notorious for animal cruelty issues. How about not have animals locked up cruelly for our entertainment.
Fireworks and red pandas have both existed at the same time for hundreds of years. Red pandas first discovered in 1825 by a French zoologist. One would assume it didn’t just blink into existence (however, I can’t prove it). Fireworks came about around 200 BC.
One would presume that there’s been a lot of overlap.
It’s possible the fireworks exacerbated a problem but it’s not the root cause.
Says it was the “fireworks causing stress” that killed it not imprisoning a wild animal in a foreign environment. I am having a hard time blaming the fireworks here.
