I think organizing needs to start immediately. There’s no downside to organizing, even if we’re massively overestimating the amount of fascism we’ll see

No problemo, i welcome the feedback and criticism. Thank you for engaging in a good discussion

but are you suggesting the election was rigged or fraudulent?

no.

Because if not you’re the one trying to impose an authoritative regime.

also no, I’m advocating for community organizing against a very obviously fascist regime. im advocating for mutual aid and self reliance. y’know, the things people who are typically targeted by fascists need.

So what you’re talking about is for a minority to raise arms against the democratically elected government.

again, not what I’m saying.

Even if you were to win the revolution you would need to put a tyrant in power because calling a new election would result in the same outcome.

not necessarily?

That’s one of the dangers of democracy, but starting a revolution to remove a democratically elected president in the name of democracy is just as dumb.

nowhere did i say i was fighting in the name of democracy. I do think democracy is generally good, although i do not view the US as a democratic country. but that’s not what im advocating for at all in this. I’m advocating for genuine survival under an oppressive regime and solidarity amongst the people against tyranny. if shit gets real bad, do i think it’s just to fight against it and resist? absolutely. but as I’ve said in other comments, the American people aren’t close to that yet. we need to organize first.

What is the goal you’re trying to achieve? A more democratic government?

That’d be great but I think at this point achieving something other than fascism would be nice.

I do, and logically it makes sense. I’m not historically inept, I largely saw it coming. But the very human part of me wanted to believe it couldn’t happen. And that same human part of me is trying to grapple with the fact that it did.

“Get organized/involved” - What’s that mean in more practical terms? Start attending social gatherings put on/hosted by radical leftist organizations? And maybe start ones if they don’t exist in your area?

“Start organizing” - Same as that first bullet?

“Get involved in mutual aid” - Yeah, ok. I’ve read Eisenstein. I know his book Sacred Economics has some tips for how to get involved with existing mutual aid organizations. I definitely need to re-read that bit and read other sources about that. But at least I have an idea where to start with some of that, I guess. I’d still like more specifics on what in particular you mean by this, though.

Get involved with local organizations, preferably radically left (because otherwise your options are more centrist or conservative, which imo is how we ended up here), that will help you set up mutual aid networks for basic resources and protection. Organize your communities so people have a support structure that isn’t dependent on our broken and corrupt system so that they feel comfortable protesting and resisting tyranny. Build it up so that within the networks you have access to secure communications, free access to information, basic necessities and resources (i.e. food, water, healthcare, medicine, etc.), and planning for resistance and direct action.

“Get armed” - So, acquire firearms. To use in some particular way? (You mentioned you’re not advocating for “acts of violence or an insurrection like January 6th”, so not that, apparently.) Or just to have for when “something” happens? If so, what specifically?

“Don’t wait until troops are rolling down the street to stage a resistance” - 'K. Not really helpful until I understand more specifically what you’re advocating for people to do.

“Get involved with resistance” - So, let’s say you’re a respected voice in a mutual aid radical anarchist collective with guns and enthusiasm. What do you suggest they do?

“Stand, fight, and maybe even die” - How? Not January 6th, but… how then?

“Don’t do nothing”/“Don’t lay down and accept our fate” - Not really helpful on its own if we don’t know what you’re suggesting we do instead of “doing nothing” or “laying down and accepting our fate.”

Get armed, trained, and be prepared to fight so that you can protect those mutual aid networks when the fascists come to dismantle them. Be prepared to fight and lay down your life for those in your community who are bigger targets (i.e. women, people of color, queer and gender non-conforming people, immigrants, etc.) just as you would want them to do for you. As much as possible, become a unified force against the tyranny.

I’m not advocating for random acts of violence or Jan 6th like action because yes that would get me banned, but that also will not be an effective form of resistance. Effective resistance will need to be directed, organized, and focused with specific goals. At some point that may look like fighting a revolutionary war or a coup, but the American people need to crawl before they start walking, let alone run. We need to build strong communities, whether virtual or physical, where we can support each other and try to minimize the harm being done.

I’m not saying to start building pipe bombs, but waiting for the fascist to fascism before organizing sounds like a terrible strategy.

Often. I make it a point to engage with viewpoints different than mine because my perspective is paper thin, and only by understanding others can I hope to expand it.

That being said, I am having a tremendously difficult time understanding how we can willingly just invite fascism (I understand how it happened, I just can’t understand how people actually let this happen).

I understand that wholeheartedly. But I personally refuse to be one of those people that sit back while everything deteriorates. When Hitler was elected a majority did nothing, but many chose resistance. I refuse to be the majority who live as cowards under fascism, so if that means I die resisting then so be it.

I’m not sure that we do. Not in our lifetimes anyway.

I don’t understand this sentiment as I’m hearing it a lot.

We’ve elected a fascist into the highest office. We’re cooked. There’s a lot we can do right now, but the most important thing is organizing. Organizing your community, your family, your town/village/city. Organizing mutual aid, direct action, and resistance. How much more do we need until people actually get off their asses and start doing something about it? Like the time for peaceful and democratic means of avoiding fascism was before the election. But a fascist is now in power, so are we going to wait until the troops are rolling down the street to do anything? I’m not saying go out and just commit wanton acts of violence in the name of revolution, but the longer we wait the more difficult it will become to get organized, involved, and yes armed.

Nobody in the world does that.

The Swiss do, which is where our gun laws originate from. The founding fathers were trying to emulate Swiss gun laws and culture, but they only really managed to solidify the laws not the culture. I’m not saying the founding fathers are the end all be all of legal interpretation, but I don’t think they missed with trying to emulate the Swiss here.

Why do you need guns in schools?

Same reason i think we should bring back shop classes, auto classes, home economics, and stuff like that. There are practical skills that are useful to learn that kids should be given the option to explore. Acting like firearms have no purpose, use, or value is silly. And it gives a good and dedicated space to learn how to use them safely, just like other tools should and did have, and just like guns used to have. Shooting classes in schools are not a novel idea and were actually common at point. Sure, in a coty it might not be the most useful but the majority of the population doesn’t live in cities.

Just make guns act like cars, if it’s fine one way, it’s fine the other too.

I don’t actually think the way we handle cars is fine, it’s actually quite fucked. But my issue is mainly with how we view and treat cars, which is a cultural issue. I have the same gripe with firearms, hence why I suggest reforms that target changing gun culture.

Putting restrictions instead of giving guns away like you’re Brian from Family Guy trying to buy a carton of milk in Texas will drastically reduce the number of people who even want one.

No, changing the way we view and frame firearms as a society will. People often want guns because they either have a legitimate need or because it makes them feel strong/tough/cool/secure in their identity. Adding restrictions mainly hurts the former, while the latter will still go to obtain them but with less oversight and control. The way to actually address the second group is with cultural changes on the perception of firearms. Again, we should look to Swiss gun culture for this.

The government should just mandate that, to own a firearm, you need a license.

In most places you do. The places you don’t are mainly Texas. I’m not arguing we become Texas. If you want to own a firearm in most states you need a Firearm Owner’s ID. If you want to carry your firearm you usually need a Concealed Carry License. This is not what I take issue with. However if this were extended to a firearm owner’s registry, I would take issue with that for the same reasons I take issue with forming registries of people who have done nothing wrong.

Then you have to renew every two years or how long it is, pass a medical exam and on you go.

This won’t work for the same reason it doesn’t currently work with cars.

If you get caught intoxicated while holding or near an unsafe firearm, your license is taken away from you, with all your firearms, for a period of time, or permanently for repeat offenses, like with cars.

You really, really don’t see how this can go wrong do you? I understand the sentiment and agree with what you want to accomplish with this, but this is rife for abuse. And not theoretical abuse, but the exact same type of abuse that has been used to incarcerate a lot of black and brown people in the US. It also is somewhat antithetical to the point of citizens being able to possess firearms if the government can just waltz in and take them away.

If it’s too much of a hassle to own one, most people will just do without.

No because like drugs and prostitution people will just find another way. Legalize all of those things because the way to address those issues is with safety regulation and cultural shifts.

Sure, I can agree with that. But the amount of police corruption is also quite high in Australia. Not saying the US doesn’t have that, but it’s a lot of the same issues just without guns. I mean look at FriendlyJordies getting firebombed for whistleblowing on politicians.

In Paris and Rome most of the police don’t have automatic rifles.

And I think plenty of people would tell and show you exactly why you need a gun in NYC.

America has a lot of government overreach too, don’t get me wrong. I’m just saying that American gun laws were originally meant to be modeled after Swiss gun laws and if we had also adopted Swiss gun culture we wouldn’t have the problems we do today.

Fair, i certainly couldve used better wording

I’m of the opinion that a lot of gun control is ineffective, especially given what guns are supposed to mean. Yes places like Australia have been extremely successful in removing guns, but also look at their policing system and governmental overreach which is honestly quite terrible. I’m of the opinion that the most effective gun control is changing the culture surrounding guns. Bring back (optional) shooting classes in schools, teach kids (and adults) gun safety and actual useful knowledge about firearms. Regulate the access, storage, and use of ammunition. Change the culture from people thinking they’ll be John Wick once they get their glock to people who actually understand that firearms are tools that can be used as weapons, and that they require time, effort, training, and a lot of responsibility to use safely. The cat is out of the bag in the US; guns aren’t going away. Acting like we can remove them is silly, but we can change the perception around them.

I also think we need similar movements for a lot of things, like cars.

Sprinkle cat litter after you shovel and salt, it’ll provide traction and prevent ice from reforming. You can get one good and warm set of winter clothes, or you can do a fuckton of layers. The former is simpler but can leave you with less flexibility and will probably be more expensive than wearing 3-5 layers of clothes you probably already own. If you don’t have them, long johns/thermal pants are a godsend. Gloves and a hat that covers the ears are also godsends, but if you’re willing to tough it out (and maybe lose a few extremities) you can do without them as eventually you’ll stop feeling the sting. Tuck your shirt and/or jacket into your pants, this will trap heat. Tuck your gloves into your coat or vice versa. Get good boots, i cannot stress this enough. It is not fun or a good idea dealing with snow in sneakers.

Don’t resist it, it’s fun

P-90 or PS-90