OpenStars

Many people left lemmy.ml for that reason. Some of us even left Lemmy altogether - e.g. I’m writing this to you from PieFed, which allows blocking of all users from Lemmy.ml (Lemmy itself does not support that - its “instance blocking” only stops communities from an instance, but not users).

Some of the communities are fine, but make sure that you never EVER talk about politics in any way. And even then, why support such a place that has such a reputation? Most communities - though not all - have counterparts elsewhere. Judge for yourself, though it’s nice to at least know that you have options:-).

In fairness, people outside of the instance may legit be receiving the brunt of their more extreme members coming out from the echo chamber and talking shit elsewhere. Then again, why choose to be inside that echo chamber, even if the toxicity is dialed way down?

And there are answers to that question that may depend on your circumstances: e.g. !Firefox@lemmy.ml is by far the largest Firefox community across the entire Fediverse. Also the ire of people inside Lemmy.ml is mostly directed at the primarily democratic capitalist Western society, but you may not feel impacted by such as much, as e.g. they make fun of the USA.

Only you know what will work best for you:-).

Actually it is. I don’t have an Mbin account but supposedly if you go to https://fedia.io/d/lemmy.ml then you should be able to accomplish it from there. It’s quite hidden though, isn’t it!?:-P More details in this post: https://piefed.social/post/307636.

I’d be interested to hear how it works out for you - like on PieFed if you do that, it blocks the users but not the communities, and in Lemmy it blocks communities but not users. I don’t know what it will do for you, beyond blocking users - but like, is it similar to a full defederation in blocking the communities as well?

Edit: sorry, I intended this to the person you were responding to. I’ll send it on to them, but leave it here in case you want to know as well, with this message explaining how strange it is that I would be responding to you who is not on Mbin:-P.

Actually it is. I don’t have an Mbin account but supposedly if you go to https://fedia.io/d/lemmy.ml then you should be able to accomplish it from there. It’s quite hidden though, isn’t it!?:-P More details in this post: https://piefed.social/post/307636.

I’d be interested to hear how it works out for you - like on PieFed if you do that, it blocks the users but not the communities, and in Lemmy it blocks communities but not users. I don’t know what it will do for you, beyond blocking users - but like, is it similar to a full defederation in blocking the communities as well?

Twitterverse - oh that’s interesting!:-)

Irrelevant software - especially if forum-based (Threadiverse), user-based (Twitterverse), and other content (PixelFed/Insta, Loops underneath that, and whatever Friendica is about) were all to end up conjoined into a single “Feed” of whatever mixture proportions the user wants, that would indeed become a true “Fediverse”:-).

But until that time… some of them do still seem somewhat separate, though perhaps artificially so.

federation - I made a post yesterday, but due to federation issues it now sits solely on PieFed (viewable from https://piefed.social/c/fediverse@lemmy.world?sort=new&layout=list), and presumably is not available from any other instances as well (e.g. looking at https://discuss.online/c/fediverse@lemmy.world?dataType=Post&sort=New, I do not see it). That’s perhaps a fine example of how the various vehicles that we use to access the Fediverse are distinct from the sources of content - although tbh that type of occurrence is nowhere close to being unique wrt PieFed, as I’ve had similar things happen with StarTrek.website and heard of many such occurrences with the likes of Aussie.Zone and Programming.Dev, etc.

Some instances COULD theoretically hold content - e.g. PieFed has a Local filter where people discuss the specific issues relating to PieFed software, as well as a trollyproblems community, etc. - but in practice, the vast majority of content derives from Lemmy.World, or wherever the particular community (or magazine) is based in. And this too is not unique to PieFed - e.g. my previous instance Discuss Online likewise has a couple of communities (e.g. !linus_tech_tips@discuss.online), but the vast majority of that instance is as a “general purpose” one that mainly pulls in content from elsewhere rather than holding it on its own.

So such “onramp” servers are common across the Fediverse - whether running Mbin, Kbin, Lemmy, PieFed, or one day Sublinks, that’s just a property of how the instance admin chooses to do things, and the people who want (or don’t want) to make communities there.

And yeah, if Lemmy.World switched from Lemmy to Sublinks, or to PieFed, or even Mbin, then it would cease to be called “Lemmy” (although other servers would still be that, like Discuss Online), though would still fall under the heading “Fediverse”, and whatever mid-range term used like “Threadiverse” as well. Although people seem to hate that term and argue whenever it is brought up.

I totally agree though - such software details shouldn’t matter, and rather it’s the “content” that we want to aim at, however we end up getting there:-).

Confirmed that the ones that don’t block hexbear and lemmygrad.ml are significantly worse:-).

I like !lemmybewholesome@lemmy.world, but there’s less than a post a day to it. At some point it’s up to us to build what we want to see in the world, which is harder when there are fewer of us - so if becomes a cache-22 where we need more people to make new content but we would need more content to attract new people.

And apparently mod tools here are inadequate, though hopefully improving.

One line of thinking that intrigues me, which you might be interested in as it relates even more to Mbin: at what point do we differentiate between where the content is located, vs. how we access it?

So like PieFed exists - I am talk to you from it right now - but if I were to make a post, let’s say to !tenforward@lemmy.world, then am I posting on “Lemmy”? There is next to no content that is exclusively located “on” an instance running PieFed itself, so PieFed is my vehicle to access Lemmy content, in a way?

Then again, a better way would be to say that it was PieFed content, shared “with” the Lemmy instance where the community is moderated (via the ActivityPub protocol), and from there shared around the world, to whatever people are running to receive it - Mbin, Kbin, Sublinks, Tesseract, etc.

And all of that is still just within the Threadiverse, but how to say what Mbin does? Does Mbin access “Mastodon content” as well as “Lemmy content”, or rather “microblog content on the Fediverse” as well as “threaded content on the Fediverse”?

I am not even sure what name the “microblog content on the Fediverse” goes by, b/c people usually say just “Fediverse”, but also things like PixelFed (Instagram replacement) and Friendica (Facebook replacement) are part of the Fediverse too, so if “threaded content on the Fediverse” becomes “Threadiverse”, then “microblog content on the Fediverse” is going to have to be renamed to something other than Fediverse too?

Since in the last six months Mbin doubled the number of comments made monthly, the distinction is becoming more noticeable - yet it is still 10k posts and 75k comments, vs. 9.4 million posts and 16.7 million comments from something running the software “Lemmy” (https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/stats).

Then too, if Lemmy.World switched over to use Sublinks (as they hinted at several months ago…), would most of this content (especially since ~80% of the Lemmy userbase is located on that server) switch from being “Lemmy” to now “Sublinks”? Setting aside the question of “what even is Lemmy, anyway?”, my question to you is: what even is Mbin, anyway? Does it cross-browse “Mastodon and Lemmy content”, or is it like a new, hybrid thing, b/c it doesn’t just browse e.g. Mastodon content, but also can host its own microblog-formatted content too, shared with servers that run Mastodon as its software, as well as its own forum-based content shared with servers that run Lemmy (which can replace themselves with Sublinks) and PieFed.

Whew, this is getting complex!? No wonder people just say “Fediverse” and leave it at that!:-P

Wouldn’t it also cause confusion for some people to say Threadiverse while other people refuse to say that and instead use Fediverse?

Ofc strictly speaking both are true.

Hehe, Forumverse? :-)

You are so helpful, I for one find that fucking awesome! 😎

THIS is indeed the way:-).

Not a public one no, but instance admins can see it.

And what is to stop someone from hosting content - like an image - onto their personal server, then collect the IP addresses of everyone who visits? e.g. couldn’t you receive a message in your DM, and without being asked, merely viewing the (auto-loading!) image could reveal that it was your account (that the DM was sent to) that came from the IP address that the image hosting server recorded in the incoming traffic?

Maybe I’m wrong? But that’s what I fear.

The content is, but the IP addresses used to interact are not.

Oh I thought that was blocked, but I guess maybe that’s just Lemmy.World that did that, while other instances can do otherwise (I thought I recalled that lemmy.cafe could - not from an onion b/c Lemmy itself somehow precludes that, but over Tor perhaps?).

How much though? I mean we have usernames yes there’s that, but can the federal agencies simply request that an instance turn over all signup data for all users and accounts? That might be an argument to avoid using US-based instances (though those mostly use Mbin or PieFed rather than Lemmy).

Or Lemmy is notoriously leaky itself - couldn’t someone simply put a thumbnail that pings a server owned by those agencies, and thereby get IP data directly? (or if not a thumbnail then a link to some website, like maybe supposedly a wordpress software or something, which functions yet also feeds IPs too) They could even spin up their own instance and watch all voting and posting traffic coming in as well, which in correlation to the IP addresses could tie down a user account. I guess a proxy would solve this particular issue. iirc there is all kinds of traffic from all kinds of servers whenever you visit every single Lemmy page, so simply putting out a post seems like it would be enough to get data from anyone that even so much as views it in their feed?

Another one relates to that time that Lemmy.World put out a user survey based on Google - anyone that responded would thereby tie a Google account to using Lemmy.

Sorry, I am all questions here and no answers, but this is going to be life & death & livelihood to so many people - splitting families apart all over again (I am referring to the previous border incidents, where e.g. babies were ripped from their mothers’ arms, some of which never did get reconnected even multiple years later).

I wonder if Lemmy will be included. On the one hand we are tiny, but there are also a lot of extremists here so it’s enriched in precisely the types that they would most want to know about.

Ofc they won’t SAY that - they’ll talk about “what a fantastic savings it will be, to not spend that money”, and probably they’ll work up gently to the point of sending US citizens to become meat shields like the North Koreans and so many others lately. But at each stage, it will always be what “we” wanted to do - it’s “our” idea to do it, I tell you!?

Since I blocked Lemmy.ml, I haven’t downvoted anything at all for several weeks, which is surprising especially given the USA election. Lemmy’s userbase really is 1000-fold more enjoyable to interact with than e.g. Reddit.

Overall I only downvote someone acting as a troll, and often even then just ignore it and move on.

And this was from September so not even elected yet.

Tbh it kinda sounds like they just want to leave NATO regardless.

I hear that but they nabbed Al Capone on taxes so… whatever works I suppose?

I am not certain I can explain it, but for one thing they have defederated from two of the largest instances including Lemmy.World, bc they wanted a narrower range of experiences yet the mod tools would not allow them to keep up with vetting the flood of content from them and thus their userbase would have been “exposed” to it.

The mantra is “be nice”, but I also saw people discussing literally murder of “others” who they disagreed with, like they voted the wrong way, or didn’t vote despite being in a deep blue USA state or something. So I have no idea of what the criteria really is.

In any case, people report being banned from there at the drop of a hat, bc their mods are quite zealous. Which can be quite shocking to someone coming from a place that has significantly looser moderation practices.

So anyway the label I see for a post hosted on a Beehaw community says:

This post is hosted on beehaw.org which has higher standards of behaviour than most places. Be nice.

And then that link goes to Beehaw’s own description of their own policies. I love this approach! It’s quite friendly - it allows Beehaw to speak for itself, and rather than penalize the instance for being different, yet it addresses the interface between it vs. the wider Fediverse that is more used to content such as appears on Lemmy.World, which again has significantly looser standards (due in large part to severe lack of moderation efforts, which in turn relates to lack of development of tools that mods seem to consider sufficient).