420blazeit69 [he/him]

Disgusting is cheerleading who knows how many more deaths that if anything will only weaken Ukraine’s bargaining position.

What about artillery attrition? Logistics in the rear? What’s the average time between Russians setting up an ammo depot and it getting blown to bits? Conscription getting riskier and riskier for Putin? How many reserves have the sides committed to the front?

Do you think you know the answer to any of these questions? I don’t see any sources. The bottom line is that Russia has shown the ability to hold its territory for quite some time.

Europe will continue support indefinitely

Lol let’s see if Europe’s support will last another winter of higher energy prices. The U.S. is the big spender, anyway.

…at a state where Russia, Russia, is importing metals from China

This paragraph is so mind-meltingly stupid I hardly know where to start.

• Countries regularly import metals, metals, from other countries. That’s because whether to import is a business decision based on price, not whether you have domestic access to an item.
• It is utterly preposterous to believe Russia is lacking workers. Soviet industrial capacity exploded during WWII, a far larger and more destructive war.

• The front has not moved in most of a year, which includes the recent failed counteroffensive.
• Russia views this as an existential threat. NATO will pay the bills but not indefinitely. Ukraine at some point will tire of a train of body bags with nothing to show for them.
• Russia has much shorter supply lines than NATO.
• NATO pulled out its economic Trump card at the beginning of the conflict and yet here we are.

you made no actual argument on why I should believe so

Would anything convince you?

And yes, bringing up allegations of war crimes is a total non sequitur in a discussion about whether the war itself is winnable for Ukraine. No war crime is excusable, but every side of every war commits them.

I said the war is lost and Ukraine should negotiate. You said:

It’s not in your hands whether they fight or not, and their motive is just, so why not help them?

I pointed out how ridiculous it is to say “why not help them” is to someone who just said they believed the war was lost. Rather than continue this conversation, you went off on a tangent. Brilliant.

What the fuck are you even talking about?

“They want to keep doing something you think is futile and causing senseless deaths, so why not help them?”

Ukraine has lost. They are not getting their separatist regions back.

Their choices are to keep fighting, which will not change this outcome, or negotiate an end to the war so they can stop dying and start rebuilding. Their negotiating position will only weaken as the war continues absent some one-in-a-million stroke of luck.

This isn’t “I kick you and you don’t defend yourself.” It’s “I kick you, you defend yourself, lose, and choose to either walk away or keep getting beaten up.” And that’s not even digging into the actual causes of the war, which are nowhere near as clear cut as Russia one day waking up and deciding to attack out of the blue.

What part of that comment can be construed as pro-Russia?