Misinformation drove these people to vote for Trump. This is going be leopard eating their faces. Sad and shows just how much fake videos and misinformation can influence our elections.
Misinformation drove these people to vote for Trump. This is going be leopard eating their faces. Sad and shows just how much fake videos and misinformation can influence our elections.
We can blame voters or fix our media landscape. You can do both, but we need to do the latter to have a functioning democracy.
People are really not ready for the media landscape conversation because it has absolutely no easy answers. The first amendment means that well-funded misinformation systems have an absolute right to keep operating.
I have an easy answer: just give Trump full control over everything and he’ll fix everything and make the good things and good words and good and stuff.
Sure, stopping billion dollar, profit-driven corporate media conglomerates should be super easy.
Honestly, “corporate mainstream media sucks” is a thing most people agree on. I know a guy who voted for Trump at least once who has been turning away from that kind of politics lately, and it’s this kind of message I hear him repeating. Now, I’m sure we have different views on how to solve that and what alternative sources should be used, but if it’s something to agree on, then maybe it’s a point of leverage.
How would you fix something that isn’t broken? This is what for-profit capitalist media does and has always done. Manufacturer consent for capitalism and its desires. Regulation in the past made it mildly less obvious? I mean they still breathlessly covered and promoted the Red Scare a half a century ago.
Not to mention that state and nonprofit media still have issues. How would one fix any of them? The only way to fix the media is to fix the voters. Actually teach critical thinking stills and encourage them. Not gullibly devouring anything fed to you unquestioningly.
You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink. All the information to debunk every claim ever made by Trump is out there. All anyone has to do is look. But most people cannot be bothered. They will just go with whatever hearsay they see on Facebook.
On that note I recently had to deal with my sister getting a bit frothy. Raging about how the Harris administration had spent so much more money than the Trump administration had on some meaningless thing. I had to insert myself and point out if there had never been a Harris administration. And that not even the Biden Administration had done what she was talking about.
This narrative serves the capitalist class and cannot be proven. You don’t “fix” voters, you create solidarity by dealing with their material conditions (engage in mutual aid).
Solidarity is great. And I I’m all for it. But how do you have solidarity with a group of people that cannot even agree on what constitutes reality. How do you address the material conditions of people who reject addressing the material conditions if it also helps someone who isn’t them.
The answer is you cannot. Not until critical thinking skills Etc are addressed. As long as people are blindly ideological of any stripe. There can’t be solidarity
I think the sort of help you’re talking about is of political policy (ie free lunches at schools). I am speaking of direct action by volunteers (ie running a community pantry). When you engage in the community, conversations happen and that is when you can challenge biases in a non-confrontational setting.
If you cannot find solidarity in the masses then what is it you’re looking for? A Vanguard party to reeducate the masses?
No not specifically. Again many of these people deny community with those they disagree with because of ideology. Though as someone pragmatically anarcho communist I do agree it is the better method. Working in communities.
The problem is how does one effectively address attacks facilitated through government? Is education reeducation? We’re not talking about instilling any sort of ideology. I despise ideology generally. Vanguard parties specifically. We are talking about basic critical thinking skills. Checking and verifying sources. Not just blindly believing what others tell you.
Those of us who are terminally online should definitely checking sources, but I don’t think that is practical for those working two shifts and taking care of a family.
It absolutely is. They may be limited on what they can check. But critical thinking skills which is the main thing I’m advocating for could easily eliminate a lot of the junk. Which is more than anything what I’m advocating for. Critical thinking skills get people thinking about sources and verification and not just accepting what they’re told.
That is well put. Thank you for that.
The issue here is that the horse has been drilled into being gullible for generations now. Compared to other civilised nations, what Fox & co are allowed to spew forth on a daily basis goes way beyond what would be considered libel or incitement in other places. But the root of the problem isn’t even that, the real crux is that whoever pays the most, decides what is legal and what not in the US. The fact that pumping money into politics has been decided to be perfectly a-ok freedom of speech instead of skewing legislation towards the richest is incomprehensible in many other societies. The Supreme Court and the lobbies make a mockery of actual democracy in favour of buying influence.
I would respectfully disagree and point out that all of your well-considered points are in fact indicative that media in the US and to some other extent the rest of the world is very much broken.
And has been for well over 50 years.
Then you should be able to provide relevant counter points to current events and the constant creep of sensationalist yellow journalism. Otherwise you’re just disagreeing to disagree.
When it comes to mass media it’s actually been this way far longer. The 50 years statement was in relation to just postwar propaganda output ala the red scare. It existed and was popular before that too. But I look forward to you actually posing something to actually disprove it other than “nuh uh”.
Well, by “broken” I mean “Not being used in a manner befitting humankind”. That is to say, it’s been misused.
Relevant counterpoints to current events . . . I guess we could use some form of successfully beneficial online community and compare it to greatawakening.win or whatever the Qanuts are posting to these days.
There’s a huge lack of awareness about out thought and media correlate and it’s been that way since scholars and academics began treating it as a subject separate from philosophy or sociology.
Objectively it has always been used to its owner’s benefit whenever they desire. That is how the media has always functioned. And how it currently is functioning. They’re simply was more diversity of ownership at one point which made it harder to notice monolithic opinion shaping. Ideologically I’m 100% agree with you that is how the media should be used. But being in touch with reality I can say 100% the media has never been used that way. The only media but even remotely comes close to operating that way would be community or straight up publicly funded not for profit media.
While that is absolutely something we should be looking into. It in no way disproves any of the historical examples of sensationalist capitalist/ownership bias Etc throughout the media historically. Property serves its owner. Always has always will. Therefore not a Counterpoint.
You would agree that media is separate from the systems that popularize it, then?
That’s the key difference. Making a tv show wasn’t always a capitalist’s wet dream and a trojan horse of fascism. There are still some shows, even today, which have moments of profound good contained in them.
Meaning, media can be a force for good. I would further argue it might even be a force for good if money was involved. Less good, perhaps, everything depends.
Well yes given that we are largely talking about mainstream media. Mainstream implies there are other smaller estuaries that the media feeds into. Does that matter really? I’d argue not.
From its Inception. Media has been a valuable and coveted tool of capitalists and fascists. One only has to look to 1920s and 1930s Germany to see what that can bring about. Yes, subversive content definitely does make it through from time to time. And those in the know chuckle a little bit. While most people have no idea it was even there. Like that several minutes segments Bo Burnham sang with a sock puppet in his last Netflix special. About all anyone remembers of it is that it wasn’t the funny they wanted. Completely missing the message. Never seeing or hearing the message about the growing fascism and media’s role in it. Wait? Bo Burnham, a silly songwriting YouTuber prescient? Yeah I was kind of surprised too. Netflix absolutely let it slip through. Though at the time I think they still haved way more good will behind them. Probably not feeling too implicated or threatened.
Yes there can absolutely be good media. Unfortunately the media at Large is largely capitalistic parasitism. Even more unfortunately is that’s what most people are only exposed to. Where are the poet laureates of our day? Where are the people writing catchy protest anthems. (I listen to them. Most people don’t and don’t care to ) Where is this generation is Woody Guthrie or Arlo Guthrie? I bet you one exist somewhere. No one’s ever heard of them. And that’s on purpose.
It’s all bread and circuses these days. Who cares if there’s a fascist in office. The McRib is back and that one low effort reality TV show. That every goober in America is addicted to for some reason is starting a new season.
Believe me I know enough about being out of the mainstream. I was goth when goth was goth. I listen to postpunk before it became alternative. I listened to electronic music before Skrillex was born or whoever this David Guetta guy that’s really popular for some reason graduated Primary School. I have not listened to radio or pop music and nearly 15 years I have no clue at all about who’s popular right now. I can introduce you to so many obscure and awesome artists. No one cares. It isn’t what everyone else they know is listening to or watching unfortunately.
part of me wishes that the democrats spent money to put up a decent fight against the VERY rampant misinformation in spanish media instead of using the money to attack third party candidates.
Third party candidates are often part of the misinformation machine. Used as an attack Vector as well. The problem is Democrats cannot address everything. Oligarchs fund conservative media more than most people realize. So many outlets exist just to push a narrative. Not to make a profit. Tim Pool and several other right-wing demagogues were recently exposed for getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars effectively a week to put out one or two low effort barely edited videos of propaganda. They made more in a couple weeks than someone like Sam Cedar for instance makes in a year. And they are just the ones we know about. Democrats simply cannot compete with or push back against all of it with the minuscule funding they do get.
the democrats literally broke campaign fund raising records and their donor list includes some of the richest oligarchs on this planet.
it was clear that they barely tried at all on univision and telemundo based on the professionally-polished trump-loving pundits mopping the floor with unpracticed volunteers and nonprofits; it was like watching the debate but in reverse with trump’s side dominating the discourse just as hard as kamala did.
i think that the democrats just assumed that latinos would vote for them anyways like they did with almost everyone else.
They do it every 4 years only. Republicans break unofficial funding records daily. Wealthy capitalist financiers pump untold sums of money into media outlets to provide campaign messaging constantly. 24/7/365 every year. Dwarfing every single record Democrats have broken summed together. Just of the tip of the iceberg we know. Tim pool was being paid by your buddies the Russians / Putin in the realm of millions of dollars. For making one to two minimally edited propaganda videos per week. Every 2 weeks he would double what someone like Sam Cedar earns in a year. It’s why there’s such a disparity in messaging Democrats don’t have those kind of resources or accessibilities.
democrats have proven that they have the resources and can win if they do it wisely; but they are merely the controlled opposition so that your buddies can justify their monopoly over our system.
Latinos have been a huge concern for the Dems since 2020, as they supported Biden to a far lesser extent than HRC. They may have done a bad job at targeting them, but no way the campaign took them for granted.
actions speak louder than words and the democrats’ out-of-touch actions led to their defeat.
Democracy: “of the People, by the People, for the People”.
Y’all seem to forget the middle part. Institutions, including the media, are not there to hand democracy on a silver platter. Democracy must be safeguarded. Constantly. There is no room for passive participation. American democracy is under threat because people are so apathetic and just expect it to happen on its own.
Statements like “the media should…” are not going to accomplish anything. It’s just more passive participation.
Much as I agree, these people went rabbitholing on Youtube. Well-designed “independent” (toxic) videos, properly targeted by Youtube & co (in exchange for some tax returns, maybe?) were an important part of their information, something that you can hardly blame on more … traditional sources.